The Lounge

[MrDEB]

I am not in favor of suing just for the money. What about principal? If you have been cheated or harmed in a preventable way then the person or persons responsible should be held accountable.
Lets say company XYZ has a product that claims it will get 100mpg but what they don't tell you is that their product has to be going downhill and it WILL have brake failure.
Your relative buys this product, is injured or killed due to brake failure. IF the brake failure was not disclosed then hundreds of thousands of innocent people will purchase this product. IF you sued company XYZ and made public the brake issue think how many people would not buy XYZs product.
I am in favor of small claims court not class action suits where money grubbing lawyers get most of the money.
That's where our justice system is screwed up.
Small claims court is where the little guy can win against the big guy.
If we were not able to sue for being wronged then our whole way of life would go down the drain.

[be80be]

The way it is today is you can sue for almost any thing and that opens the door for more bad then good to come out of it. If I smoke I don't but if I did I could of sued for what I did to myself And who paid for that the next person he now paying $4 to $7 a pack No one made them smoke. That cost every one in some way. Same with this car no one made them buy but look at what the car will cost now we all pay. I walk in wallmart a box hits me in the head doesn't even hurt me I sue they raise there prices maybe pennies on the dollars. We all pay who did that hurt. That's one big reason this country is in the shape we are in.There are more ways to take a dollar then make a dollar.

[Jon Chandler]

But MrDEB, this isn't brake failure resulting in death. I would have absolutely no issue if (when) a car company hides a serious safety critical fault and gets their asses sued for it. This is about "my car doesn't save me enough money. Give me money".

The EPA did *Gasp* actual tests to establish the sticker mileage. Not "my fathers-son-in -law billy-bob once got 80 MPG tests, but actual dyno tests!

She could probably buy any car and not get the tested, sticker-ed, normalised, EPA mileage, due to her driving style, lack of maintenance or insistence to drag around heavy stuff. Should anyone with a lead foot be able to sue?

Example: I drive a 2.0 Litre Turbocharged diesel; it's rated for around 40 MPG (its a bit old now). If I drive carefully, cruising in 6th gear, not squealing off the line, I can easily get 55+ MPG. If I drive with a lead foot and push the car to it's paces, or do a lot of city driving, I can get it down to under 30 MPG.

MPG is not just about the car, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling.

And unfortunately for us over here, the American style of frivolous litigation is starting to become the norm, pushing up things like insurance rates for everyone!

[Jon Chandler]

EPA Estimate.jpg (178.04 KiB) Viewed 71 times

In the US, fuel economy estimates are predicted by a procedure dictated by the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). The 2012 Fuel Economy Guide describes the procedure and gives estimates for the model year. From the guide:

Annual Fuel Cost Estimates

This Guide provides annual fuel cost estimates for each vehicle. The estimates are based on the assumptions that you travel 15,000 miles per year (55% under city driving conditions and 45% under highway conditions) and that fuel costs $3.44/gallon for regular unleaded gasoline and $3.72/gallon for premium. Cost-per-gallon assumptions for vehicles that use other fuel types are discussed at the beginning of those vehicle sections. The fuel costs were determined in advance to allow time for printing fuel economy labels and the Guide, and may not reflect current fuel prices....

Your Fuel Economy Will Vary

Even though EPA recently improved its methods for estimating fuel economy, your vehicle’s fuel economy will almost certainly vary from EPA’s estimate. Fuel economy is not a fixed number; it varies significantly based on where you drive, how you drive, and other factors. Thus, it is impossible for one set of estimates to predict fuel economy precisely for all drivers in all environments. For example, the following factors can lower your vehicle’s fuel economy:

Aggressive driving (hard acceleration and braking)
Excessive idling, accelerating, and braking in stop-and-go traffic
Cold weather (engines are more efficient when warmed up)
Driving with a heavy load or with the air conditioner running
Improperly tuned engine or underinflated tires
Use of remote starters

In addition, small variations in vehicle manufacturing can cause fuel economy variations in the same make and model, and some vehicles don’t attain maximum fuel economy until they are "broken in" (around 3,000–5,000 miles).

So, please remember that the EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing vehicles when car buying, but they may not accurately predict the MPG you will get. This is also true for annual fuel cost estimates....

The agency specifying, regulating and requiring the tests clearly states that these are estimates and, as the saying goes, your mileage may vary.


It would seem to me that the only way Honda could be at fault here is if the tests were incorrectly conducted or the results falsified. Otherwise, sue the EPA if you feel the test results are in error.